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Thread: The Fabrication/Welding Thread

  1. #51

    Default The Fabrication/Welding Thread

    I meant laying a bead that has that look vs laying a straight bead. I'll stitch weld a tack at a time when the material I'm working with is too thin, like the oil pan I did for my car.



    Continuous bead using a lower case e kind of movement.



    Continuous bead using no movement



    Just using my pics as reference. I've been working with the fabricator at work a lot, he sees no structural differences between doing a pretty looking bead vs a straight bead, but arguments online say differently. I realize I worded my last post so that it sounded like I was asking about stitch welding.

  2. #52
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    I understood what you meant. Laying a continuous bead with the stacked dime appearance is the best method. The metal gets hot and soaks up the weld. If you do one tack at a time this does not happen thus less penetration. That's not to say one tack at a time is not strong. Do both methods on a piece you can flip over to examine the backside of the weld and you should see what I mean.

    You also get more splatter with the tack method because you are constantly starting a new weld.




    Very nice welds by the way!
    Last edited by M.Doban; 02-28-2014 at 07:18 PM.

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  3. #53

    Default mig

    When it comes to MIG with steel hard wire the way to go is one continuous bead with a feed back motion.
    You should also push with hard wire no pull.
    So you should be able to get the appearance of "stacking dimes" with one continuous bead by moving forward, quickly feed back to the puddle then move forward and when you feed back motion is almost the same completely through the weld you should have an ascetically pleasing weld as well as physically strong.
    This is because as you move forward you get the penetration you want and the feed back motion leaves the finish you want.
    Just really watch how the puddle is acting it will tell you everything.
    Miller brand has come out with a PULSE MIG machine in the past couple years that makes this entire topic a mute point. It literally looks as if you TIG welded what you MIG welded when it is set up correct because it uses a alternating currently and as the name sounds it literally pulses the wire, we just got some in a work and they are a dream to weld with.
    Also as for that oil pan above that is plenty thick material to run a bead on and not worry about burning through, just set the machine correctly and adjust the speed of your motions correctly.

    Again just my two cents from my experiences from work.

    Also a side note for those of you who are not sure if you weld looks the way it should and you have Instagram, follow the page @weldporn they post the best welds from some of the best welders around. Now if you are just starting out do not expect to have yours look exactly like what you see its more of a reference point and a good place to ask questions and get ideas.

  4. #54

    Default The Fabrication/Welding Thread

    Thanks for the input!

    I did a couple test beads on some similar gauge steel as the oil pan, and couldn't get it to stop burning through. Our machine at work is set up to work on heavier stuff, plus I know nothing about setting up a machine besides following the chart under the hood.

    I am also looking for recommendations on a 110v gas MIG. Need something capable of doing bodywork/light fabricating mainly. Would rather spend money once than buy cheap stuff and not be happy. Would also like to start learning TIG, so a machine capable of that as well would be great.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zman86 View Post
    Thanks for the input!

    I did a couple test beads on some similar gauge steel as the oil pan, and couldn't get it to stop burning through. Our machine at work is set up to work on heavier stuff, plus I know nothing about setting up a machine besides following the chart under the hood.

    I am also looking for recommendations on a 110v gas MIG. Need something capable of doing bodywork/light fabricating mainly. Would rather spend money once than buy cheap stuff and not be happy. Would also like to start learning TIG, so a machine capable of that as well would be great.
    I would just buy a miller tig machine then, they are expensive but hands down the best. You will be able to work on light metal for body work with no problem, and thicker stuff too.

  6. #56
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    Okay. Another question.

    I still can't get my aluminum to bond. I've tried the swirling motion, swirling while adding filler, making a puddle on one piece and bring the other in to touch the puddle, turning the amps down, turning the gas down (to not blow the puddle away), and messing with the balance and arc length. No matter what, one piece just blows away from the torch as the metal heats up and melts. Is it all in technique? Or am I still doing something wrong. I clean the metal with an aluminum-only wire brush and always keep my tungsten uncontaminated and ground to a sharp point with directional grains.

    Butt welding, overlap welding, 45* joint, and 90* joint welds all with the same result. Thin or thick aluminum. 1/16 red tungsten on an inverter TIG.
    Last edited by M.Doban; 03-02-2014 at 05:45 PM.

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    Here's a few pics of my latest C notch. It was on a mk4 gti. Pretty standard other then I tig everything now that i have my thermal arc 186.





















    Notched and sitting perfect!






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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Doban View Post
    Okay. Another question.

    I still can't get my aluminum to bond. I've tried the swirling motion, swirling while adding filler, making a puddle on one piece and bring the other in to touch the puddle, turning the amps down, turning the gas down (to not blow the puddle away), and messing with the balance and arc length. No matter what, one piece just blows away from the torch as the metal heats up and melts. Is it all in technique? Or am I still doing something wrong. I clean the metal with an aluminum-only wire brush and always keep my tungsten uncontaminated and ground to a sharp point with directional grains.

    Butt welding, overlap welding, 45* joint, and 90* joint welds all with the same result. Thin or thick aluminum. 1/16 red tungsten on an inverter TIG.
    Just make sure you are holding the torch so that both sides are getting the same amount of heat and add rod in the center of the two puddles.
    You will need to add rod quickly and keep it away from the torch so it doesn't melt before reaching the puddle.

    That's pretty much all I can think of, unless your machine isn't set to AC.
    To weld aluminum with DC you will need helium, which is crazy expensive.

    I use an argon/helium mix at work for AC aluminum and it welds awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SheaMoose View Post
    Just make sure you are holding the torch so that both sides are getting the same amount of heat and add rod in the center of the two puddles.
    You will need to add rod quickly and keep it away from the torch so it doesn't melt before reaching the puddle.

    That's pretty much all I can think of, unless your machine isn't set to AC.
    To weld aluminum with DC you will need helium, which is crazy expensive.

    I use an argon/helium mix at work for AC aluminum and it welds awesome.
    Thanks! I should know your name by now. Maybe you've told me and I forget. That's most likely the case. Anyway, what's your name?

    p.s. I've loved your avatar for years now and I'm just now telling you. I love your avatar. That movie...

    I believe the welder is indeed set to AC but a double check can never hurt. My tank is 100% Argon. Is it still possible to weld aluminum with that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Doban View Post
    Thanks! I should know your name by now. Maybe you've told me and I forget. That's most likely the case. Anyway, what's your name?

    p.s. I've loved your avatar for years now and I'm just now telling you. I love your avatar. That movie...

    I believe the welder is indeed set to AC but a double check can never hurt. My tank is 100% Argon. Is it still possible to weld aluminum with that?
    Yes argon will weld aluminum just fine, just curious but when you are starting your initial puddle are you starting at the very edge of the piece?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasySpeed*Inc View Post
    Yes argon will weld aluminum just fine, just curious but when you are starting your initial puddle are you starting at the very edge of the piece?
    No, I'm starting a ways in because the edges just melt away.

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    ok good I was going to mention that aluminium edges are tricky to start on but nevermind

    I do have a tip for you though(this goes for most of any tig welding) when you are starting your arc ease the pedal slowly until you start to see the puddle form on both edges(you want the puddle to form relativley quickly otherwise you will heat soak the material) this slow start also preheats the material making the puddle form more naturally, also when coming to a stop ease off the pedal just the same as you started.

    important, make sure your peice isnt sitting flat on your welding table, it needs a gap between the table otherwise the table becomes a massive heatsink
    Last edited by EasySpeed*Inc; 03-03-2014 at 10:04 PM.

  13. #63

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    The oxide layer on aluminum melts at a much higher temp than the base metal, that's why it's hard to start a puddle. I like to brush it with a stainless steel brush vigorously and wipe it down with acetone right before I weld it.

    For the tungsten grind you'll want to use a wheel only for tungsten electrodes and grind on the face of the wheel. If you use the side, the tip of the tungsten will have grind marks swirling around horizontally. That spreads out the arc and makes it more erratic. If you grind on the face of the wheel the grind marks would look parallel to the length of the tungsten. The arc follows the grind marks so it should be able to aim the arc where you need it to go.

    P.S. I think it would be clearer if the first post was edited to say: AC for aluminum and DC Electrode Negative (DC-) for steel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasySpeed*Inc View Post
    ok good I was going to mention that aluminium edges are tricky to start on but nevermind

    I do have a tip for you though(this goes for most of any tig welding) when you are starting your arc ease the pedal slowly until you start to see the puddle form on both edges(you want the puddle to form relativley quickly otherwise you will heat soak the material) this slow start also preheats the material making the puddle form more naturally, also when coming to a stop ease off the pedal just the same as you started.

    important, make sure your peice isnt sitting flat on your welding table, it needs a gap between the table otherwise the table becomes a massive heatsink
    My piece has been sitting flat on the table. I'll remember to not do that. I'll also do the pedal trick. I've kinda just been mashing it. Thank you!


    Quote Originally Posted by ench View Post
    The oxide layer on aluminum melts at a much higher temp than the base metal, that's why it's hard to start a puddle. I like to brush it with a stainless steel brush vigorously and wipe it down with acetone right before I weld it.

    For the tungsten grind you'll want to use a wheel only for tungsten electrodes and grind on the face of the wheel. If you use the side, the tip of the tungsten will have grind marks swirling around horizontally. That spreads out the arc and makes it more erratic. If you grind on the face of the wheel the grind marks would look parallel to the length of the tungsten. The arc follows the grind marks so it should be able to aim the arc where you need it to go.

    P.S. I think it would be clearer if the first post was edited to say: AC for aluminum and DC Electrode Negative (DC-) for steel.
    Right. I'll buy a new stone for the grinder as soon as I can and mark it for only tungsten grinding use.

    Thank you, you're right. I'll edit that as soon as I'm back on a computer.
    Last edited by M.Doban; 03-04-2014 at 01:33 PM.

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    What do you guys use to grind down and smooth out nasty welds in tight corners? Its hard to see but i want to make it look a little nicer where the perch is welded to the housing, ran out of argon for while finishing it up lol

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  16. #66

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    I would grind all that off and start over, but cut off wheels, flap discs, and roloc pads are mostly what I use in regards to metal cutting abrasives.

    For general cleaning I always use wire wheels and acetone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Doban View Post
    Thanks! I should know your name by now. Maybe you've told me and I forget. That's most likely the case. Anyway, what's your name?

    p.s. I've loved your avatar for years now and I'm just now telling you. I love your avatar. That movie...

    I believe the welder is indeed set to AC but a double check can never hurt. My tank is 100% Argon. Is it still possible to weld aluminum with that?
    It's Shea.
    That's funny because I've always been really jealous of your avatar..

    Quote Originally Posted by M.Doban View Post
    My piece has been sitting flat on the table. I'll remember to not do that. I'll also do the pedal trick. I've kinda just been mashing it. Thank you!




    Right. I'll buy a new stone for the grinder as soon as I can and mark it for only tungsten grinding use.
    It'll be much easier to burn through the aluminum when it's not flat on a table.

    A fresh stone can help you perfect a weld, but it's not really necessary.
    Honestly, everybody at my work just uses the angle grinder that's always laying around because it's the fastest way. Most of the time it's covered in aluminum and it still doesn't contaminate the tungsten enough to effect the welds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SheaMoose View Post
    It's Shea.
    That's funny because I've always been really jealous of your avatar..
    Ha! Way cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheaMoose View Post
    It'll be much easier to burn through the aluminum when it's not flat on a table.

    A fresh stone can help you perfect a weld, but it's not really necessary.
    Honestly, everybody at my work just uses the angle grinder that's always laying around because it's the fastest way. Most of the time it's covered in aluminum and it still doesn't contaminate the tungsten enough to effect the welds.
    Alright, thanks. I think I'll get a new stone and try both methods for the heck of it.

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  19. #69

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    helped my buddy build these over reading week. still unfinished, gonna smooth them out soon but yeah. pretty cool for our first go at making tubs




  20. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devocat View Post
    helped my buddy build these over reading week. still unfinished, gonna smooth them out soon but yeah. pretty cool for our first go at making tubs
    In case you missed it:

    Quote Originally Posted by M.Doban View Post
    To be clear, THIS IS NOT A "LOOK AT WHAT I MADE" THREAD. Only post pictures if 1) requested, 2) you want to show people what you're up against, 3) welds that don't look as pretty as you'd like and you seek advice or 4) you used someone's advice and want to thank them by showing the improvement. No judging! We all start somewhere.

    This post will be continually updated as more information is posted
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    Quote Originally Posted by vwgti16vt View Post
    Here's a few pics of my latest C notch. It was on a mk4 gti. Pretty standard other then I tig everything now that i have my thermal arc 186.
    Really nice job, I just notched my buddies MK4 and it was a bitch. Especially getting to the backside. Do you remove the subframe so you have more access to the backside? I can't even imagine getting a TIG torch and filler rod comfortably back there while working the pedal.

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    This is a wonderful thread.

    I learned to weld back in college and I really miss it. Did a lot of thin steel back in my autobody days and did some exhaust work for a friend at one point. Once I have my own garage a 110v MIG will be one of the first things I buy for it.

    Great info in here guys.




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  23. #73

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    Had my first attempt at overhead welding yesterday. Turned out plenty strong, but all around pretty ugly. Any tips/suggestions for next time?




    Work also picked this thing up. Miller shopmate 300, can do mig, TIG and stick. I'm possibly looking at buying my own TIG stuff so I can start learning. What am I looking at equipment and money wise for a basic TIG setup.


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    For welding upside-down, try to keep the torch as level to the ground as possible (not perpendicular to the metal). Turning the wire speed down as low as possible helps. You can also use the one-tack-at-a-time method so as to not have the bead drip. That's usually what I do. Either way, it's really difficult.

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    I don't even want to imagine what would happen if the bead dropped on you while welding overhead. I've had a bit of splatter land in my shoe once, that was bad enough!

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