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Thread: The Roundie - 1973 BMW 2002

  1. #1

    Default The Roundie - 1973 BMW 2002

    Introduction



    The Roundie

    A few of you might have seen my E30 build thread, which went exactly one post deep before being abandoned. Shortly after posting that up, the real world caught up with me and I found myself with zero time to work on the car. While I wanted to finish the swap, and restore the car to what I had always pictured, it just wasn’t in the cards for now. Unfortunately I decided to part ways with the car, and find something a little more complete that I could enjoy while I made small changes.

    In comes my 1973 2002. I’ve had an itch for a 2002 for quite a long time now. A friend of mine has had a number of them and I’ve always loved the little cars. I started the hunt a while back, but had little to no luck finding something that was both in budget, and not a complete basket case. I didn’t think I’d be able to find a Roundie in my budget, but this diamond in the rough popped up.


    Taken in Stockton, when I flew out to inspect the car

    I actually found this car by accident, just browsing Instagram one night. I shot the owner a DM, and next thing I knew I was flying to Stockton, CA to buy this car and arrange shipping home. The previous owner was incredibly nice, and helped me out quite a bit in getting the car ready to send home. He had had the car for a long time, and had seen a lot of the details of the build through properly.


    On it's way home! That E38 pissed oil all over my poor '02.

    Here’s a basic run down on the car. It’s already M20b25/G260 swapped (with a refreshed M20), sitting on CAtuned coilovers, with a Kooglewerks front air dam, and a number of other little changes. The previous owner 5 lug swapped the car by modifying the hubs, and it now has a 5x120 bolt pattern. The car isn’t without it’s problems, there’s some rust here and there (most notably in the pedal box), but is largely structurally sound. There isn’t any deep cancer in the areas these cars get hit the most.


    This was an important part for me. I knew whatever 2002 I bought, I'd end up dropping an M20 in eventually. This saves me some time long term.


    These are actually Firebird wheels. I dig them, but they aren't staying.

    The plans are pretty simple. There are a lot of loose ends to tie up with the swap, so I’ll be tackling those first. The interior is a mix of so many colors that I want to redo it entirely. Exterior wise, I’m in the process of building another set of wheels for this car (as my RSs will not fit it), but otherwise can remain as is for the most part. So the changes will be subtle, but worth while. Long term, I'd love to get it body worked and repainted a fresh coat of Sahara Beige, but that's only if time permits.

    First Changes


    After test driving the car in California, I knew there was a few things that I would have to take care of right away when the car arrived home. Primarily with the throttle pedal. The car has an E30 G260 5 speed, which required the transmission tunnel to be widened. The result was a stock throttle pedal that absolutely did not fit anymore. I struggled to press it, and broke it clean off not 30 seconds after the car had arrived home.

    I ordered an Ireland Engineering aluminum throttle pedal, a kit they sell to address these issues. I simply cut out the stock pedal bracket, and bolted this pedal in. The pedal pushes against a roller bearing on the throttle rod, and engages incredibly smoothly. 10/10, best modification I’ll ever do to this car. Mainly because I can actually drive it properly now.


    I opted for the black pedal to blend in


    This is the worst of the rust. A lot of it is surface, but you can see where it ate through in the corner where they widened the transmission tunnel. The rest of the car is clean, but unfortunately this is a moisture hot spot on these cars. It'll definitely get patched up soon.


    For those familiar with 2002s, these are the dreaded nubs.


    Skipped a few steps, but here's the finished product. It clears the transmission tunnel, and engages smoothly.

    I also ordered a steering hub adaptor from IE, as I had a Renown 100 sitting around from my E30. The stock wheel was in decent shape, but a little too big for my taste. Unfortunately the 100 sticks out way too far on this hub, so I’ll likely need to swap to a Monaco. Otherwise it looks fantastic.


    Before. Very clean but a little too big for me.


    After. It looks great, but I need to switch to a wheel with no dish.

    Before the car was shipped to me, the previous owner spun up the coilovers so nothing was damaged getting on and off the truck. So I took some time to spin everything back down. I discovered the car is sitting on true-rear coilovers, but has no reinforcement on the rear shock towers. So I’ll be tackling that pretty quickly as well.


    Hover '02 engaged. Those oil spots came from the beater Accord I keep around, not the Roundie.

    I’ve only had the car for about a week now, so there wasn't a lot to report right off the bat. Fortunately I can say there will be future updates on this car, I have parts coming in and some goals to hit this year.
    Last edited by bwwaaaa; 03-12-2018 at 02:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Nice!!!
    My BMW E36 318ti Steel Blue Compact build thread -
    http://www.stanceworks.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=88271

  3. #3
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    Aug 2015
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    man I do love this. keep up the good work look forward to seeing it progress.
    Instagram - Benwalsh91

  4. #4

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    look awsome, cant wait to see where this goes

  5. #5
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    Mar 2018
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    Minneapolis, MN
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    I love it!

  6. #6
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    Good start

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven_318ti View Post
    Nice!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Benwalsh91 View Post
    man I do love this. keep up the good work look forward to seeing it progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by C2_mad View Post
    look awsome, cant wait to see where this goes
    Quote Originally Posted by 76BMW2002 View Post
    I love it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dane083 View Post
    Good start
    Thanks all!

    Currently just playing the waiting game on parts to come in. Hope to have new updates this weekend, if stuff arrives like it's supposed to. Also searching for a set of 15x5.5" BBS 30-hole barrels if anyone has a clean used set of four for sale. More details on the wheel build coming soon

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Michigan
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    Congrats! Love that car
    lamborfuckinghini

  9. #9

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    Wheels: Part One


    This weekend I spent some time working on the new set of wheels for the Roundie. I had originally built a set of BBS RSs for my E30, I ended up making them 15x8, which would have been too wide for this car. But if I put the stock lips back on it would have been perfect. However it's all a wash, because my 2002 has been swapped to 5x120, and my BBS RSs are 4x100. So I put the RSs back in storage. I figured it wasn't really worth the hassle going back to four lug, and I happened to have a set of wheel faces sitting on my shelf that I hadn't figured out a use for.


    The tires I could change, but the bolt pattern on my RSs is wrong for the 2002. Shame...

    In come my OZ Vega faces. A few years ago I bought a set of faces for $40. I had no use for them, but for the price I figured I could hang them up on the wall. When I bought the Roundie, I realized this was the perfect opportunity to do something with them. They're the right bolt pattern, and Vegas use 30-hole BBS parts. I just so happened to have a set of 1 inch lips sitting around from my RS rebuild.


    This is how I got them. Not in bad shape, but due for a refresh.


    One inch lips left over from my RS rebuild


    I had been looking for a set of OZ Vega center caps for a long time. Happened to snag a set this week finally.

    I sent the faces off to get powder coated. I had them redone in a very similar gold. It's tough to capture the color right, in the shade it looks much darker than it really is. But next to the Sahara Beige, it looks fantastic.


    Love this color combination.


    I wasn't sure on gold at first, I was planning on doing a silver again. Glad I went this route.

    Before sending off the lips for polishing, and ordering barrels, I wanted to take a few minutes to test fit everything and make sure I knew what I need. I need 15x5.5 30 hole barrels for sure, so if anyone is selling a set, please let me know. These will ultimately sit at 15x7, and I'll be putting 195/50 tires on them. I may need a small spacer in the rear, but that is to be determined.










    This week I drop off the center waffles to get color matched, and the lips to get polished. I'm still on the hunt for some good, used barrels (as new barrels are well over double the cost). I'll get some new hardware, and slap them together soon! I've ordered a few more odds and ends as well, hopefully those parts arrive this week. I had wanted to take the car to Stance Wars Las Vegas this year, but I rather not rush the build to make it there. I'm shooting for Big SoCal Euro as the Roundie's first big road trip. Lots of stuff to sort out between now and then (mainly the cooling system), but definitely doable.

  10. #10

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    Other than the Renown 100 being to deep for your driving position how did you like it? I've been eying them up lately and was about to pull the trigger.


    I/G: DeltaAlpha9

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaAlpha9 View Post
    Other than the Renown 100 being to deep for your driving position how did you like it? I've been eying them up lately and was about to pull the trigger.
    I'm a big fan, it's very high quality. I had a couple of Grip Royal wheels in my E30 for a while, and was never happy with the quality of those at all. They felt flimsy and the stitching fell apart on them fast. The Renown feels a lot stronger, and held up much better. I just ordered a Renown Monaco to replace the 100, Scott's an awesome guy and I'm sure would be happy to help you out.

  12. #12

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    Love everything of this thing, especially those Pontiac Wheels

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by bwwaaaa View Post
    I'm a big fan, it's very high quality. I had a couple of Grip Royal wheels in my E30 for a while, and was never happy with the quality of those at all. They felt flimsy and the stitching fell apart on them fast. The Renown feels a lot stronger, and held up much better. I just ordered a Renown Monaco to replace the 100, Scott's an awesome guy and I'm sure would be happy to help you out.
    Funny enough I have a 130r in my other car and am quite happy with it. Guess now I just have the tough choice between leather, air leather or alcantara haha. Thanks for the feedback.


    I/G: DeltaAlpha9

  14. #14
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    946

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    Following this one for sure.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaAlpha9 View Post
    Funny enough I have a 130r in my other car and am quite happy with it. Guess now I just have the tough choice between leather, air leather or alcantara haha. Thanks for the feedback.
    No problem! My vote always goes to leather. Alcantara wears out pretty quick.

    Quote Originally Posted by DawsonLiri View Post
    Love everything of this thing, especially those Pontiac Wheels
    Quote Originally Posted by mpower5266 View Post
    Following this one for sure.
    Thanks all!

    Tail Lights

    So since I got this car, everyone keeps telling me that my tail lights are "the worst they've ever seen". Admittedly, the light output was miserable, so I decided to go with an LED kit from Blunt Tech. I rather not get rear ended because I wasn't visible at night. The parts came in this afternoon, I had them in an hour later.


    This is before. Yes the lights are on, no I'm not joking.


    I used hot glue to hold all the boards in place. Just a small amount on the back, and some dabs in the corners.


    I went a little more aggressive on the other bucket (not pictured). This should hold fine though.

    Here is a side by side comparison. It should be pretty obvious which one is which. Even though this is shot during the day, they were pretty much invisible at night as well. I'm not sure if it had the wrong bulbs, or the lens is too hazy, but it's completely unsafe.


    Hazards were on in this photo, so turn signal is also lit.


    Before


    After

    And the final product. I'm very please with the final results. For an hours worth of work, the peace of mind is huge. Anyone who has followed me in this car immediately comments on how bad they were. So this was definitely a needed upgrade.


    Finally, my Renown Monaco came in earlier this week. I swapped the 100 out, and this fit much better. Now the turn signals aren't 50 feet away, and I'm more comfortable. The wheel looks great in the interior as well. I need to get some black hardware as Ireland Engineering doesn't have any, and the thread pitch of their steering hub doesn't match up to the included Renown hardware. Weird, but an easy fix. I also removed the remaining center console. I had debated sourcing a replacement console, but I'm rather liking the very spartan look. I'll tuck the wires up under the dash and try running the car like this for a while.



    While I was working on the lights today, I noticed the tail light gaskets were completely shot, and I'm missing one knob that holds it in place. I ordered some license plate lights, so I'll be replacing the busted set shortly. I also spent a good deal of time poking around the cooling system. I've noticed that this car does not like sitting still. It appears the fan is kicking on, but is completely insufficient to keep things cool. It's a cheap, Chinese fan, so I'm going to order a stronger Spal pusher, and possibly a lower temp. thermostat. If that doesn't work, I'll be putting a bigger radiator in. Summer is around the corner, so if it can't take the 80 degree weather we've been having, 120 certainly isn't going to help anything.


    Note the post-card sized radiator. Hoping that it's just the cheap fan that is causing the warm operating temps.
    Last edited by bwwaaaa; 03-24-2018 at 05:48 PM.

  16. #16

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    Wheels Part 2

    So this is a pretty small update, but there's a change in plans with my wheel selection. Originally I was planning on building up the OZ Vega faces that I had sitting around. Given the 2002 was already converted to 5x120, I figured this would work out great. While I was told that 30-hole RS parts will bolt up to these faces, I have some concerns about the "how".

    After breaking down my RSs to steal the barrels, I realized that the back of the Vega face doesn't have a machined lip for the barrel to sit on. My worry is, this would put a lot more stress on the bolts, as there isn't a surface distributing the weight evenly. There isn't a lot of information on this, so maybe someone can speak to the safety aspect of it, but it didn't sit well with me.


    Note the lip on the back of the face. The RS barrel sits snugly on this.


    The Vega lacks this lip.

    If anyone has more experience with this, let me know. I'm still fairly new to wheel building, but I didn't want to risk this and have the wheel bolts snap on me. In any event, I've decided to put the Vega faces back on the shelf, and instead swap the 2002 back to four lug and run my RSs. With a one inch lip, they're the perfect spec for a 2002. I already have a line on four lug hubs, so I'll be trading for those to run my RSs.

    For those who didn't see my E30 build thread, I originally picked up these RSs in horrific condition. I blew them apart, put a two inch lip on them, refinished everything and threw them on my E30. I then sold the E30 about a month later, so they saw 0 road time.


    How I first got them.


    Post-restoration.

    So I once again tore them down, I'll send the faces off to get powder coated (again) this week, and reassemble them with the original 1" lips (which are already off getting polished). This will put them back at 15x7 +25. With a 195/50 tire square, the car will be sitting perfect. If anyone is interested in buying some OZ Vega faces, let me know




    Irrelevant to the above, my new license plate came in. The default Arizona license plate looked horribly out of place on my car, so I went with a copper historic. It's the little details that make a world of difference. The car is due for a photoshoot here soon, just posting photos of the car in my driveway is getting a little boring.


    I always forget to clean up these damn news papers.

    I'm going to Stance Wars Las Vegas this weekend, which will slow progress on the 2002. I have some parts coming in this week, but likely won't have a chance to install them until the following weekend. So that's all I'll have for a while.

  17. #17

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    I wonder if the issue you were having with the rear lights was because of resistance in your old wiring.

  18. #18
    Join Date
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    You are 100% correct in thinking you need that lip for the wheel assemblies. The recess where the lip and barrel sit on the face registers the parts together for assembly, strength, and balance. Without that, the bolts would be taking too much force.
    Instagram: @Eurow

  19. #19
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    If you use those Vega faces, you'll have to reverse mount them so both the lip and barrel can register on that edge on the front of the face.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by duct-tape View Post
    I wonder if the issue you were having with the rear lights was because of resistance in your old wiring.
    I've thought about that, and given the general state of the wiring in the trunk, it wouldn't surprise me. It doesn't help that the reflectors in the housings were flaked away and the lenses themselves are pretty dull. The LEDs have more than solved all this though. I may go in and rewire things later just for peace of mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyRa View Post
    You are 100% correct in thinking you need that lip for the wheel assemblies. The recess where the lip and barrel sit on the face registers the parts together for assembly, strength, and balance. Without that, the bolts would be taking too much force.
    Quote Originally Posted by DUTCHswift View Post
    If you use those Vega faces, you'll have to reverse mount them so both the lip and barrel can register on that edge on the front of the face.
    Thanks for confirming my suspicions there. I figured reverse mounting was my only option, but even then it's problematic as the inner diameter of the RS lip/barrel is actually larger then the OZ face. I suppose I could have some sort of hub ring machined, but that doesn't seem worth the effort. I'll just keep an eye out for genuine OZ lips/barrels to finish these wheels someday. Fortunately I've already sourced a set of 4 lug hubs, and will be able to swap back to my RSs with 0 issue. No sketchiness, no work arounds.

    Thanks!

  21. #21

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    Usually I **** led light on an old car, but this one they're looking pretty standard, good job!

    Jeaoluos of that arizona antique plate, I want one!

  22. #22

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    Parts Collecting

    Things have been slow with the 2002, it's taken a lot longer to get in parts then I had anticipated. Not many big updates in this post, mostly just parts collecting.

    The first guy I had arranged to trade hubs with flaked out (despite running a business that parts out 2002s...), and it took a few weeks to find someone just willing to sell me a set. Fortunately they have arrived. I also have all new wheel bearings ready to go when it's time to do the swap. I've also ordered all new brake components, including braided hoses. Figured I might as well upgrade while I'm in there.


    Shockingly difficult to get your hands on.

    My RS faces came back from powder coating. Although nearly identical to the OZ Vega faces, these are finished in Prismatic's Spanish Gold. It's just slightly lighter, but works well with the Sahara beige on the car.




    Frankly, it's impossible to tell the difference in photos.


    How I got them, to where they are now.

    I also (finally) got my 1 inch lips back from polishing. It took well over a month, but the wait was worth it. The two inch lips are for sale, if anyone is interested. I had debated running the two inch lips in the rear, but I'd rather have a square setup.


    The last bit of parts hunting came in the form of some VW Mk2 GLI Recaro seats. I actually used to own a GLI with identical seats, and they were easily my favorite part of the car. A pristine set happened to pop up on Craigslist a couple hours away, so I went to grab them before I could convince myself I didn't need them. I actually ended up getting two sets of Mk2 Recaros while I was down there, the second set was free, but absolutely destroyed. The plan is to eventually reupholster these seats in the factory tobacco brown when I redo the interior, however in the mean time they'll just go in as is. It's not the prettiest solution, but I'll get there eventually. Right now Function>Form.


    I also got a Jetta rear bench and a second set of destroyed Mk2 Recaros while I was there.

    In terms of actual wrenching, all I have done is fuss with the rear coilovers. The right rear spring has been making some horrific noise lately. I got the car up in the air and disassembled everything on that side. A quick look shows the the CAtuned spring is a little picky about how it sits. If it isn't clocked just so, it rubs on the body.




    Yikes.

    I realigned everything and it is definitely better, but still not perfect. There are a few other things I want to tackle (mainly having my rear strut brace welded in, vs. bolted in), but if the noise persists then I need to rethink suspension in the rear. The goal is ultimately handling focused, so I know I can still get the car on rails with a divorced spring and shock setup.

    Right, so not much else going on so far. Tentative plan is to have the car four lug swapped and on RSs before the end of May. I've been slacking on reassembling my wheels, but I'll take care of that shortly. I also will have a garage space for the 2002 shortly, which will make things a little easier over the summer. The goal is to have the car "done" by September for Big SoCal Euro. I'd like to drive it from Phoenix to San Diego for the show. That will include a total suspension refresh (bushings, ball joints, tie rods, track rod, etc.), some interior bits, cooling system overhaul and hopefully some sort of sound system. Next post should have real, tangible progress on the car itself!

  23. #23

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    Nice, nice, nice. Love BMWs from 1999 and back.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2001q45 View Post
    Nice, nice, nice. Love BMWs from 1999 and back.
    Thanks!

    Seats

    Another small update, but progress is progress so I'll take it. Wish I took more photos of the brackets specifically, but I suppose they aren't much to look at. I started off by restrapping the drivers side seat. Mk2 VW Recaros use a sling style support under the cushion to hold you up. My drivers seat sling had fallen apart, and was poorly repaired. I converted it over to this sling style support using the stock hardware. Let me be the first to say, holy shit this sucks to do. The actual metal bars it sits on are pretty flimsy, and these are obviously very strong elastic, so it kept bending the metal supports. Eventually I figured out that if you start at the bottom and slowly work your way up the hooks, it is a little bit more manageable. I only did this on the drivers side, because the passenger seat was in tact, and I really didn't feel like struggling with it again.


    Nice and firm, but a bitch to install

    So the interior is actually due for a lot of work. The previous owner had started converting over to a red/black color scheme. I think it would have looked pretty good finished, but it wasn't for me. I'm not sure who chose to do the rear and passenger seats in Brown/Green, but I think it looks horrible. The drivers seat is mismatched, and with the red carpet the whole setup is an eyesore.


    So many colors, so little coordination

    The actual installation of the Recaros wasn't difficult (once I figured out what I was doing). I used the Aardvarc Racing Recaro seat adapters. For any other 2002 owners out there, most Recaro seats from this era use the same 16" base. Just measure the distance between the hardware that holds the OEM seat rails on, and you'll know for sure. Because of this, I was just able to use an adapter that is typically used to mount E21 320is seats in.

    Also, it's worth noting that if you buy the Aardvarc kit, you'll need to buy new shorter hardware to bolt the adapters on. The stock bolts are too long, as they compensate for the bulky stock rails. You'll need 6 M8x1.25 bolts, ~20-25mm in length.


    Driver's side in, looks better but not great


    Passenger in

    So far, from my brief test drives with the seats, I love them. They sit a little bit higher then I want, however I find that the added bolstering and real support has transformed the car for me. Eventually I plan to get these reupholstered. So while they aren't the prettiest for now, they do serve a functional purpose. In my head, this also kind of fits the narrative of the Neue Klasse cars. BMW had wanted to make a family sedan that you could take to the racetrack on the weekends. Well, if you need bucket seats but don't want to upset your significant other too much, what better way to do that then some plush Recaros? So I'd call this a great success.

    Side note, I had started to install the braided brake lines this weekend but ran into disaster. Turns out 45 year old hard line is typically seized and very soft. Ended up rounding off a couple nuts, so I'm scrambling to get new lines in. I was able to get the car back together and limp it home, but it's not ideal.

  25. #25

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    Did you ever figure out a solution for the rear coilovers? I’m running CATuned coilovers also and they are a bit noisy in the back. Haha

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