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The Roundie - 1973 BMW 2002

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  • #16
    Wheels Part 2

    So this is a pretty small update, but there's a change in plans with my wheel selection. Originally I was planning on building up the OZ Vega faces that I had sitting around. Given the 2002 was already converted to 5x120, I figured this would work out great. While I was told that 30-hole RS parts will bolt up to these faces, I have some concerns about the "how".

    After breaking down my RSs to steal the barrels, I realized that the back of the Vega face doesn't have a machined lip for the barrel to sit on. My worry is, this would put a lot more stress on the bolts, as there isn't a surface distributing the weight evenly. There isn't a lot of information on this, so maybe someone can speak to the safety aspect of it, but it didn't sit well with me.


    Note the lip on the back of the face. The RS barrel sits snugly on this.


    The Vega lacks this lip.

    If anyone has more experience with this, let me know. I'm still fairly new to wheel building, but I didn't want to risk this and have the wheel bolts snap on me. In any event, I've decided to put the Vega faces back on the shelf, and instead swap the 2002 back to four lug and run my RSs. With a one inch lip, they're the perfect spec for a 2002. I already have a line on four lug hubs, so I'll be trading for those to run my RSs.

    For those who didn't see my E30 build thread, I originally picked up these RSs in horrific condition. I blew them apart, put a two inch lip on them, refinished everything and threw them on my E30. I then sold the E30 about a month later, so they saw 0 road time.


    How I first got them.


    Post-restoration.

    So I once again tore them down, I'll send the faces off to get powder coated (again) this week, and reassemble them with the original 1" lips (which are already off getting polished). This will put them back at 15x7 +25. With a 195/50 tire square, the car will be sitting perfect. If anyone is interested in buying some OZ Vega faces, let me know




    Irrelevant to the above, my new license plate came in. The default Arizona license plate looked horribly out of place on my car, so I went with a copper historic. It's the little details that make a world of difference. The car is due for a photoshoot here soon, just posting photos of the car in my driveway is getting a little boring.


    I always forget to clean up these damn news papers.

    I'm going to Stance Wars Las Vegas this weekend, which will slow progress on the 2002. I have some parts coming in this week, but likely won't have a chance to install them until the following weekend. So that's all I'll have for a while.

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    • #17
      I wonder if the issue you were having with the rear lights was because of resistance in your old wiring.

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      • #18
        You are 100% correct in thinking you need that lip for the wheel assemblies. The recess where the lip and barrel sit on the face registers the parts together for assembly, strength, and balance. Without that, the bolts would be taking too much force.
        Instagram: @Eurow

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        • #19
          If you use those Vega faces, you'll have to reverse mount them so both the lip and barrel can register on that edge on the front of the face.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by duct-tape View Post
            I wonder if the issue you were having with the rear lights was because of resistance in your old wiring.
            I've thought about that, and given the general state of the wiring in the trunk, it wouldn't surprise me. It doesn't help that the reflectors in the housings were flaked away and the lenses themselves are pretty dull. The LEDs have more than solved all this though. I may go in and rewire things later just for peace of mind.

            Originally posted by MikeyRa View Post
            You are 100% correct in thinking you need that lip for the wheel assemblies. The recess where the lip and barrel sit on the face registers the parts together for assembly, strength, and balance. Without that, the bolts would be taking too much force.
            Originally posted by DUTCHswift View Post
            If you use those Vega faces, you'll have to reverse mount them so both the lip and barrel can register on that edge on the front of the face.
            Thanks for confirming my suspicions there. I figured reverse mounting was my only option, but even then it's problematic as the inner diameter of the RS lip/barrel is actually larger then the OZ face. I suppose I could have some sort of hub ring machined, but that doesn't seem worth the effort. I'll just keep an eye out for genuine OZ lips/barrels to finish these wheels someday. Fortunately I've already sourced a set of 4 lug hubs, and will be able to swap back to my RSs with 0 issue. No sketchiness, no work arounds.

            Thanks!

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            • #21
              Usually I **** led light on an old car, but this one they're looking pretty standard, good job!

              Jeaoluos of that arizona antique plate, I want one!

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              • #22
                Parts Collecting

                Things have been slow with the 2002, it's taken a lot longer to get in parts then I had anticipated. Not many big updates in this post, mostly just parts collecting.

                The first guy I had arranged to trade hubs with flaked out (despite running a business that parts out 2002s...), and it took a few weeks to find someone just willing to sell me a set. Fortunately they have arrived. I also have all new wheel bearings ready to go when it's time to do the swap. I've also ordered all new brake components, including braided hoses. Figured I might as well upgrade while I'm in there.


                Shockingly difficult to get your hands on.

                My RS faces came back from powder coating. Although nearly identical to the OZ Vega faces, these are finished in Prismatic's Spanish Gold. It's just slightly lighter, but works well with the Sahara beige on the car.




                Frankly, it's impossible to tell the difference in photos.


                How I got them, to where they are now.

                I also (finally) got my 1 inch lips back from polishing. It took well over a month, but the wait was worth it. The two inch lips are for sale, if anyone is interested. I had debated running the two inch lips in the rear, but I'd rather have a square setup.


                The last bit of parts hunting came in the form of some VW Mk2 GLI Recaro seats. I actually used to own a GLI with identical seats, and they were easily my favorite part of the car. A pristine set happened to pop up on Craigslist a couple hours away, so I went to grab them before I could convince myself I didn't need them. I actually ended up getting two sets of Mk2 Recaros while I was down there, the second set was free, but absolutely destroyed. The plan is to eventually reupholster these seats in the factory tobacco brown when I redo the interior, however in the mean time they'll just go in as is. It's not the prettiest solution, but I'll get there eventually. Right now Function>Form.


                I also got a Jetta rear bench and a second set of destroyed Mk2 Recaros while I was there.

                In terms of actual wrenching, all I have done is fuss with the rear coilovers. The right rear spring has been making some horrific noise lately. I got the car up in the air and disassembled everything on that side. A quick look shows the the CAtuned spring is a little picky about how it sits. If it isn't clocked just so, it rubs on the body.




                Yikes.

                I realigned everything and it is definitely better, but still not perfect. There are a few other things I want to tackle (mainly having my rear strut brace welded in, vs. bolted in), but if the noise persists then I need to rethink suspension in the rear. The goal is ultimately handling focused, so I know I can still get the car on rails with a divorced spring and shock setup.

                Right, so not much else going on so far. Tentative plan is to have the car four lug swapped and on RSs before the end of May. I've been slacking on reassembling my wheels, but I'll take care of that shortly. I also will have a garage space for the 2002 shortly, which will make things a little easier over the summer. The goal is to have the car "done" by September for Big SoCal Euro. I'd like to drive it from Phoenix to San Diego for the show. That will include a total suspension refresh (bushings, ball joints, tie rods, track rod, etc.), some interior bits, cooling system overhaul and hopefully some sort of sound system. Next post should have real, tangible progress on the car itself!

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                • #23
                  Nice, nice, nice. Love BMWs from 1999 and back.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 2001q45 View Post
                    Nice, nice, nice. Love BMWs from 1999 and back.
                    Thanks!

                    Seats

                    Another small update, but progress is progress so I'll take it. Wish I took more photos of the brackets specifically, but I suppose they aren't much to look at. I started off by restrapping the drivers side seat. Mk2 VW Recaros use a sling style support under the cushion to hold you up. My drivers seat sling had fallen apart, and was poorly repaired. I converted it over to this sling style support using the stock hardware. Let me be the first to say, holy shit this sucks to do. The actual metal bars it sits on are pretty flimsy, and these are obviously very strong elastic, so it kept bending the metal supports. Eventually I figured out that if you start at the bottom and slowly work your way up the hooks, it is a little bit more manageable. I only did this on the drivers side, because the passenger seat was in tact, and I really didn't feel like struggling with it again.


                    Nice and firm, but a bitch to install

                    So the interior is actually due for a lot of work. The previous owner had started converting over to a red/black color scheme. I think it would have looked pretty good finished, but it wasn't for me. I'm not sure who chose to do the rear and passenger seats in Brown/Green, but I think it looks horrible. The drivers seat is mismatched, and with the red carpet the whole setup is an eyesore.


                    So many colors, so little coordination

                    The actual installation of the Recaros wasn't difficult (once I figured out what I was doing). I used the Aardvarc Racing Recaro seat adapters. For any other 2002 owners out there, most Recaro seats from this era use the same 16" base. Just measure the distance between the hardware that holds the OEM seat rails on, and you'll know for sure. Because of this, I was just able to use an adapter that is typically used to mount E21 320is seats in.

                    Also, it's worth noting that if you buy the Aardvarc kit, you'll need to buy new shorter hardware to bolt the adapters on. The stock bolts are too long, as they compensate for the bulky stock rails. You'll need 6 M8x1.25 bolts, ~20-25mm in length.


                    Driver's side in, looks better but not great


                    Passenger in

                    So far, from my brief test drives with the seats, I love them. They sit a little bit higher then I want, however I find that the added bolstering and real support has transformed the car for me. Eventually I plan to get these reupholstered. So while they aren't the prettiest for now, they do serve a functional purpose. In my head, this also kind of fits the narrative of the Neue Klasse cars. BMW had wanted to make a family sedan that you could take to the racetrack on the weekends. Well, if you need bucket seats but don't want to upset your significant other too much, what better way to do that then some plush Recaros? So I'd call this a great success.

                    Side note, I had started to install the braided brake lines this weekend but ran into disaster. Turns out 45 year old hard line is typically seized and very soft. Ended up rounding off a couple nuts, so I'm scrambling to get new lines in. I was able to get the car back together and limp it home, but it's not ideal.

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                    • #25
                      Did you ever figure out a solution for the rear coilovers? I’m running CATuned coilovers also and they are a bit noisy in the back. Haha

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                      • #26
                        Looks so rad!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by stubs179 View Post
                          Did you ever figure out a solution for the rear coilovers? I’m running CATuned coilovers also and they are a bit noisy in the back. Haha
                          Sort of. I contacted CAtuned directly, and they told me it's one of two things.

                          1. Rust. They said that they have had issues with extremely rusty cars having lots of issues with noise in the rear. I guess things get messed up, metal is soft, springs rub on the shock towers. Something like that, I didn't fully understand. My car isn't really rusty there, so I ruled that out.

                          2. Spring pre-load. When I test drove the car before buying it, there was no noise at all (another reason to rule out the rust possibility). In order to ship it to AZ, it was raised up to avoid damage getting on/off the trailer. There's a good chance the pre-load get messed up during this process. They said if there wasn't enough pre-load on the spring, then it could cause it to be out of place and rub.

                          I haven't really had time to wrench on the 2002 lately (which is why this thread has been kind of dead for a while...), so I never got around to adjusting the pre-load. I should be finally making some big progress soon though, so I'll update you on it then. Regardless, I'm really leaning towards dumping the CAtuned suspension down the line, and going with a Ground Control setup. That's all TBD.

                          Hope this helped a little!

                          Originally posted by irfaana08 View Post
                          Looks so rad!
                          Thank you!

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                          • #28
                            Small Progress

                            So things have been really slow with the 2002. I probably could have posted more small updates as I went along, but nothing has substantially changed with the car yet. It's just been more prepping, and parts gathering. We're in the height of Summer here in Arizona, and it's a little too hot to actually be working on cars outside. But here's what I've gotten done in the mean time (not much).


                            Rugged and Refined, my hooptie in line with some much nicer cars


                            We gave it a very, VERY light cut.


                            Not the best photos, but you can see the difference.


                            A couple months ago a local place, FourTillFour Coffee, held a pretty great show. The Roundie was invited to park in the front row, which was pretty exciting for me. I took some time to properly clean and buff it. You can see some of the rust and body damage in the photos above though. It's still a solid shell, and shines up pretty nicely for the condition of the paint, but I do intend to get the car properly fixed down the line.


                            Mk4 Jetta calipers, and Volvo 240 calipers.

                            I went to a few junkyards to continue piecing together my big brake kit. I got a set of Volvo 240 front calipers, and Mk4 Jetta rear calipers. This is a known budget-BBK for the 2002. The calipers seem to be in working condition, but I may send them in as cores for some shiney new parts (or rebuild these and get them powdercoated).


                            I also ordered in E21 small bearing hubs from Ireland Engineering. I pressed in some fresh studs, and they're ready to go into the car. This will allow me to run a vented rotor with my Volvo brakes up front. The stock brakes are not up to snuff, and I think this setup will match the M20 nicely.


                            Note the hub does not fit in the top hat of the rotor.


                            A lot of material was removed from the edges.


                            Now it fits in the rotor. Excuse the bag, it was late and I was lazy.

                            The rear is using stock 2002 hubs, that have been modified to fit into the Mk1 Golf rotors. I sent them off to a local machine shop that was able to turn down the hub, and widen the lug holes a little. Pretty simple job, and now the rear hubs will fit into the disk brake conversion in the rear.


                            From the first assembly.


                            Went a little overboard on the silicone this time around, but I shaved off the excess later.


                            One of the many perks of daily driving a Fiesta ST. It's a great wheel hauler.


                            And now they wait until I swap the hubs.

                            Right so wheel update time! This has been a massive headache, and everything has gone wrong. When I initially went to reassemble the RSs, I began dry assembling them. I noticed that it was taking significantly more force to tighten with my torque wrench than I remembered from previous wheel builds. I got through three wheels, was nearly done with the last and a bolt snapped in half. I checked my torque wrench against a friends, and it was way off. I've had this cheap Amazon-ordered wrench for years, and it only just now somehow got out of spec. I made a judgement call to order all new hardware, because all 120 bolts were likely stretched out and compromised. If nothing else, it was just some peace of mind. Afterwards things were smooth sailing, I got all four wheels together in a couple hours. But there was a lot of delay in between. I wrapped the wheels in Hankook RS4s. I'm a little worried about the grip overwhelming the stock differential and axles, but I think it'll help put some of the M20 power down.


                            So now we're back in limbo. Until it either cools down, or I can get a decent garage space to do the swap, I don't really have much to do with the car. I may re-tackle the cooling system, and do some general clean up, but the priority is really suspension and brakes at this point. So it may be a while until I update again. Long term, we're talking about paint. I've been kicking around some color ideas, but I definitely have some time before I have to figure that out.

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                            • #29
                              updates are awesome, cant wait to see the wheels on!!
                              Instagram - Benwalsh91

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                              • #30
                                Keep'em coming

                                Those RS + those Hankook looks very nice

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