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Thread: The Roundie - 1973 BMW 2002

  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fruttolo View Post
    Well done mate The only feeling I prefer to the one I get when I finish a project is the rush of starting it
    Thanks! If I'm honest it's a little scary to take a car I was driving that same morning, and completely disable it. I always get nervous it's not going to come back together. But I have faith, this isn't a particularly complicated project, just time consuming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretfactoryjapan View Post
    Are you going to dye the door cards or replace them?
    At this stage, I think I'm going to leave them Saddle brown. I'm planning on putting black carpet in the car, so I'll have black seats, carpet, dash, and upper door cards, with a little bit of brown to set them off. While I'd prefer an all black interior, door cards are ridiculously expensive. And I've already been chewed out for even thinking about dying saddle door cards in other places, so for now they'll be fine.

  2. #77

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    Wish I have that space!

    But I'm glad you're doing this, this car need to be saved.

    And then driven hard!

  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawsonLiri View Post
    Wish I have that space!

    But I'm glad you're doing this, this car need to be saved.

    And then driven hard!
    Thanks, it'll most certainly be driven hard when it's done!

    On a Whole, This is Good

    So I did a small amount of grinding to see what we were truly working with. Keep in mind this was done in about 30 minutes just on what was visually the worst areas of the trunk. I learned two things. I do not need a new diff support, and the shock tower is much, MUCH worse than I thought. On a whole, this is good news. to replace the diff support, the body shop would have had to drop the subframe, measure carefully, cut most of the trunk out. It would have be extremely expensive. I took my grinder straight to the visually worst part of the diff support, it had a very thick layer of flaking rust under the paint. What I discovered underneath was solid metal. Perhaps a little pitted, but not rotten through. Underneath the car, the beam is completely clean. I had a few people look at it, to make sure I'm not going crazy, and there simply isn't any cancer on the rear diff beam. This saves me likely thousands on the repair job.


    That's a shitty photo of what was visually the worst rust in the trunk since I got the car. Underneath? Seems to be ok. Simply resealing the trunk floor seems to be the go to move here. No need to replace what is otherwise workable sheet metal. I will continue to grind every bit of paint off to make sure it's truly solid, but everything I checked so far has come up clean. Except...


    The passenger side shock tower was what prompted all of this. The small grinding we did earlier revealed a hole or two. When I took my new angle grinder to it this time, I discovered some pretty catastrophic rust. This is bad, but not beyond saving. Fortunately I do have that sheet metal for this exact tower. Likewise, I seemed to have lucked out on the drivers side shock tower as well. Zero rust on everything I've brought down to metal.

    This weekend I'll finish fully stripping out the trunk and getting the car ready for transport to the body shop. The tow truck comes to get it next Wednesday, and I'm hoping for a quick turn around time. From there it comes home for me to do all bushings and suspension refresh, and makes its last trip to my friend's fab shop for the core support work. We're getting into the thick of it.


    I also made the impulsive decision to start stripping the interior. I want to put in that black carpet, so everything is coming out so I can pull the carpet, and when it gets back I'll be swapping that out. "While I'm in there" I'll also tackle some sort of radio solution. That'll at least put the interior in a happy place for me.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    1,014

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    Quote Originally Posted by bwwaaaa View Post
    Thanks, it'll most certainly be driven hard when it's done!

    On a Whole, This is Good

    So I did a small amount of grinding to see what we were truly working with. Keep in mind this was done in about 30 minutes just on what was visually the worst areas of the trunk. I learned two things. I do not need a new diff support, and the shock tower is much, MUCH worse than I thought. On a whole, this is good news. to replace the diff support, the body shop would have had to drop the subframe, measure carefully, cut most of the trunk out. It would have be extremely expensive. I took my grinder straight to the visually worst part of the diff support, it had a very thick layer of flaking rust under the paint. What I discovered underneath was solid metal. Perhaps a little pitted, but not rotten through. Underneath the car, the beam is completely clean. I had a few people look at it, to make sure I'm not going crazy, and there simply isn't any cancer on the rear diff beam. This saves me likely thousands on the repair job.


    That's a shitty photo of what was visually the worst rust in the trunk since I got the car. Underneath? Seems to be ok. Simply resealing the trunk floor seems to be the go to move here. No need to replace what is otherwise workable sheet metal. I will continue to grind every bit of paint off to make sure it's truly solid, but everything I checked so far has come up clean. Except...


    The passenger side shock tower was what prompted all of this. The small grinding we did earlier revealed a hole or two. When I took my new angle grinder to it this time, I discovered some pretty catastrophic rust. This is bad, but not beyond saving. Fortunately I do have that sheet metal for this exact tower. Likewise, I seemed to have lucked out on the drivers side shock tower as well. Zero rust on everything I've brought down to metal.

    This weekend I'll finish fully stripping out the trunk and getting the car ready for transport to the body shop. The tow truck comes to get it next Wednesday, and I'm hoping for a quick turn around time. From there it comes home for me to do all bushings and suspension refresh, and makes its last trip to my friend's fab shop for the core support work. We're getting into the thick of it.


    I also made the impulsive decision to start stripping the interior. I want to put in that black carpet, so everything is coming out so I can pull the carpet, and when it gets back I'll be swapping that out. "While I'm in there" I'll also tackle some sort of radio solution. That'll at least put the interior in a happy place for me.

    That dyed rear bench looks great. In the process of converting my interior to black and is exactly what I want to do with mine.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by oprahhwinfreyy View Post
    That dyed rear bench looks great. In the process of converting my interior to black and is exactly what I want to do with mine.
    Thanks! I used SEM Marine Vinyl Dye and prep. They have a few different shades of black, but I opted for "Ranger Black" which seemed to work well for my application. I included some links below, I'd test it out on sample material first just to make sure you like the finish. For my non-functional rear seat, it works well, but it has a very dry look to it in person. You may want to go with a brighter finish, depending what you are going for. Can't wait to see how it all turns out though!

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    https://www.amazon.com/SEM-38343-Vin...Prep+-+13.3+oz.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    1,014

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    Quote Originally Posted by bwwaaaa View Post
    Thanks! I used SEM Marine Vinyl Dye and prep. They have a few different shades of black, but I opted for "Ranger Black" which seemed to work well for my application. I included some links below, I'd test it out on sample material first just to make sure you like the finish. For my non-functional rear seat, it works well, but it has a very dry look to it in person. You may want to go with a brighter finish, depending what you are going for. Can't wait to see how it all turns out though!

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    https://www.amazon.com/SEM-38343-Vin...Prep+-+13.3+oz.
    I don't use my rear seat either. Thanks for the links!

  7. #82

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    And We're Off

    Keep in mind, this was supposed to happen after SEMA. Delays and some mistakes brought us to this point. But as of yesterday, the tow truck came to collect to the 2002 and it's at the body shop.




    That's about the most low car friendly tow truck I've ever seen in my life. Love it, super easy getting the 2002 on and off. To recap, the 2002 is basically just going in for the passenger side shock tower, and some gas tank surround metal. The diff support was just fine, and frankly why over spend if the car doesn't need it? Hoping for a relatively quick turn around, though I'm not 100% sure what the timeline is. Once it comes back, it'll get a suspension and brake overhaul, and then finally off for a new radiator support and cooling system upgrades. There is light at the end of the tunnel now.
    Last edited by bwwaaaa; 12-26-2018 at 11:09 AM.

  8. #83

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    The shock tower is really bad, glad you find it before doing the job!

    Can wait for the return!

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    78

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    Finally my kind of car build.

  10. #85

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    Cut Up

    Stopped by Axis the next day, and they already had started chopping up my trunk. It's tough to see with this photo, but if you look below the fuel filler neck, that entire section of floor is cut out. It was rotted enough to warrant just making a new one. Tower was cut, rust treated and will be patched. Since the damage was limited to the one tear, it didn't make sense to completely remove everything.


    This whole section will be cut and replaced. It is located under the filler neck in the trunk. Water seeps in through the seal and eventually rots out this portion of floor. Non-structural, but disgusting all the same.


    Given the progress he's making, the 2002 will be back pretty soon. I have to prep the gas tank to go back in, which I've been lazy about. I'm shooting to get everything quickly reassembled, but we'll see how it all goes. Word is there is going to be another StanceWorks open house in January/February. It'd be cool to have the car back together by then and take it out for that. But that is only possible with absolutely no delays. So we'll play it by ear.
    Last edited by bwwaaaa; 12-26-2018 at 11:08 AM.

  11. #86

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    Steady Progress

    Axis sent me some photos this morning of the progress. Since I have little else to share, I thought I'd post them here. I haven't seen the car yet in person, but the photos being sent to me are promising. Given the speed they are working, I think I'll have the car back very soon.






    A small but notable update, I now have black carpet in hand. So the red will finally be removed, and the interior will be one step closer to being complete. I've been complaining about the red carpet since day one, so it is kind of nice to finally know that is going away for good.


  12. #87

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    Looks like they're doing a nice good quality job!
    Hooray on the black carpet, finally LOL

    FB: @DumbassCarCrew - IG: @fruttolo_dumbasscrew

  13. #88

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    Paint

    What can I say, Axis Paintworks works considerably faster than I can keep up with. Last night they sent me these photos. I've arranged for the tow truck to pick the 2002 up on Friday, so it'll be home and it'll be time for me to rip into the car. Excited to have the car back so fast, I honestly didn't think it would be back for a month or so.




    You can see the difference in texture, I figured ultimately it didn't matter since the trunk is closed and I'm the only one who will see it


    Some touch up to the other tower just to make them match (and cover the potion I ground down)


    A recap on the damage and repair.

    Alright so I guess it's full steam ahead on everything else. I've been slacking on prepping the gas tank and all that, but now I don't really have an excuse. I suppose the big objective now is to figure out about how long it will take me to finish everything I have planned. With the car back this Friday, I really want to have the whole car done in about a month. No idea if that's possible or not yet, there tend to be snags with these o

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Posts
    122

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    Wow that was a quick fix, congrats! I hope for no snags and you get it running in a month, as planned. Good luck!
    "You could roll an E30 in a BMW showroom today and people would think:
    Well, they finally got the 1 series right!"

    3.0 L e30 ground up build

  15. #90

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    Puzzle Solving

    Well I brought the 2002 home over the weekend. Opted to use a truck and trailer instead, which proved to be a very lengthy process when getting the 2002 up on the trailer. It took nearly an hour of winching and pushing to get it up there, but eventually it did go. In my effort to save a few dollars, I killed a ton of time. Probably not worth it in retrospect, but what's done is done.


    As soon as I got home, the car went up on jack stands, and the tear down process began. I'm starting in the rear of the car, taking care of all the changes I wanted to make there. So I started dropping the subframe. This is normally a fairly easy process, that was made infinitely more complicated by the center exhaust. The biggest problem being, it is one piece from the headers to the muffler tips. Rather than trying to drop the exhaust, I decided to work around it. This meant a lot of creative shuffling of parts, I disconnected the axles from the diff to shuffle around, and then eventually the entire diff from the subframe. I may have left it just suspended on the exhaust, as it is a pain in the ass to remove. It will come out later, but that's a problem for future me to solve.






    Safety third.

    So here we are. Rear end is disassembled. Not pictured, I did break down the trailing arms and subframe so they're bare, and started scraping and scrubing all of the grime off. I'm not going for powder coated perfection, but there is no harm in giving everything a good scrub down. This isn't a show car by any means, and I try to keep that in mind to prevent myself from going over board in changing things. My instinct is to make everything brand new, but that's money poorly spent. Clean and safe is more important right now.

    The goal over New Years is to break down the front end, and start prepping the rear subframe to go back together. I'm waiting on a new diff gasket to arrive in the mail, and will need to order sway bars for the car this week. So that, unfortunately, will be the source of some delay. Otherwise I'd be ready to put the car back together today.

  16. #91

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    next time you want to trailer, unhook the trailer and chock the wheels. then use the truck to pull it up on. way quicker.

  17. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by duct-tape View Post
    next time you want to trailer, unhook the trailer and chock the wheels. then use the truck to pull it up on. way quicker.
    This is genius, I would have never thought about it
    Also, I'd probably prefer dropping the whole exhaust instead of having to deal with it when removing subframes and diffs lol

    FB: @DumbassCarCrew - IG: @fruttolo_dumbasscrew

  18. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by duct-tape View Post
    next time you want to trailer, unhook the trailer and chock the wheels. then use the truck to pull it up on. way quicker.
    I wanted to, but every time we thought about just doing that, we almost got it on the trailer. We both agreed we should have just done that from the start, but I guess we were too deep into it to change course at that point. Stupid, but whatever, we got it done eventually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fruttolo View Post
    This is genius, I would have never thought about it
    Also, I'd probably prefer dropping the whole exhaust instead of having to deal with it when removing subframes and diffs lol
    I may still do that, if I decide to fuss with the shifter linkage. The exhaust hangers and bushings are the most aggressive ones I have ever seen, and I can't figure out how to slip the exhaust off of them at all. They're 1x1 chunks of rubber, in solid metal brackets, welded to the car. They have absolutely no give. For now, this was the easier option. But the deeper I get into this project, the more of a pain they become haha.

  19. #94
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Coventry, England
    Posts
    276

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    *See's BMW 2002*
    *See's Coilovers*
    *See's some splitty boi BBS's*
    *Smiles and nods*
    Bagged 2002 Lupo SE Project
    2003 VW Lupo GTI Daily


    Instagram: @lewdeak

  20. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deaky97 View Post
    *See's BMW 2002*
    *See's Coilovers*
    *See's some splitty boi BBS's*
    *Smiles and nods*


    Boring but necessary

    This weekend marked very slow progress, but progress all the same. I spent some time removing bushings, which is a very smelly process. It started with finally removing the control arms from the car. I had to borrow a ball joint separator to get the tie rods off. Also, as it turns out the M20 is very much in the way of getting the driver's side control arm off. While I eventually did manage to jump on a breaker bar and get everything loose, it wasted a ton of time. Perks of owning a hot rod I suppose.

    One thing I noticed, is the control arm bushings were toast on the passenger side. The car has had some wicked pull under braking, something I tried to iron out with new pads/rotors etc. But this was almost certainly the reason for it. In fact it was so bad on the bushing picture below, I could tear the bushing apart by hand. For the rest, I resorted to burning.


    Passenger side control arm


    I installed all of the bushings on the passenger side, which I later realized I have to undo. But here's photos of that process. The first (horrible, and underlit photo) is the new radius arm bushing. For any of you thinking of getting a 2002, and have to do this bushing, it is very much a pain to remove. I used the radius arm for leverage and eventually was able to pry out the stock bushing. The 2 piece poly unit went in much easier.




    After I pressed in those bushings, I felt it was a little bit of a waste to have the arm looking that grimey. Eager to test out the paint I had picked up the other day, I decided to test it out on the other control arm, and rear subframe push rods. I'm using Rustoleum Rust Inhibitor, and will do a final coat in glossy enamel. However yesterday was one of the two cold, rainy days we get here in Arizona. So despite my best efforts, it was far too humid and cold to properly paint.


    I hit everything with a wire wheel to knock off loose dirt and paint. I then scrubbed the whole piece down.


    The photo is pretty poor, which is par for the course in my thread. They were soaking wet with paint there, but did eventually dry an even coat once I got them in the garage where it was warmer. I decided to wait to lay down the final enamel coat due to the weather, I didn't want to make things worse, even if it would all be hidden under the car. Sometime this week I'll pull the other bushings from the control arm back out, and give that a good coat too. But for a test, things went about as well as I could hope. It should prevent any future rust or harm.

    I then finished the weekend out burning out the remaining trailing arm bushings. A miserable process, but necessary all the same.


    This week I'm waiting for a pretty important part to arrive in the mail. Once that arrives, I can place yet another order with Ireland Engineering, and hopefully I'll be set to start putting the car back together. I miss driving it a lot, so the anxiety of having it sit in the garage all torn apart is starting to get to me.

  21. #96

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    Probably overkill

    Things are rapidly getting out of hand in terms of upgrading. I couldn't stand putting an open differential back in the car after going to all the effort to refresh the suspension. So I sourced an E21 Limited Slip. These seem to be absolutely impossible to find, so I had one shipped in from Chicago. In that crate you see it pictured in. It's a little ugly, but it engages smoothly and had low-ish miles on it. So I trust it to hold up.


    As you can see, it wasn't drained before shipping.

    I popped out the flanges real quick, and sent them off to Ireland Engineering. There they will get redrilled, and sent back. That'll accept the 2002 CV axle bolt pattern, and with a spacer will bolt right up.


    My least favorite smell in the world is gear oil. So this is a miserable piece to store in my garage right now. Once the flanges come back, I'll pop the cover off, clean the case, and put the 2002 cover on.

  22. #97

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    Nice score that E21 LSD, I still haven't found a decent one.

  23. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by bwwaaaa View Post
    I guess we were too deep into it to change course at that point.
    this is literally how I operate on pretty much everything

  24. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawsonLiri View Post
    Nice score that E21 LSD, I still haven't found a decent one.
    Thanks, it was a lucky Facebook find! If you're still looking, join some of the E21 Facebook groups, they pop up from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by duct-tape View Post
    this is literally how I operate on pretty much everything
    I wish I could say I learned my lesson, but this update proves otherwise.

    Jumping the Shark

    So in trying to remove the diff from the drive shaft, I was poking around the underside of the car and discovered something fairly alarming. At some point, the nuts holding the tranmisssion brace had rattled off, and the whole brace had fallen onto the exhaust. It wasn't that far off, not even the length of the studs extending under the car. Maybe half an inch total lower then it should be. However, I think we all know that an exhaust should not be holding your transmission in the car. Discovering this, I made a snap decision to just pull the engine.


    Here's my logic... Since I purchased this car, I've been less than impressed with the plumbing and wiring. It always felt like a rush job. The previous owner told me that he brought it to a shop in his area to have them complete those two areas, and they clearly just phoned it in. While it is functional, the car did run afterall, it is ugly and completely unservicable. For example, if the shift linkage failed, the exhaust would have to come out completely to reach it. In order to remove the exhaust, the subframe has to come out. This is because the exhaust is one piece front to back, a removable mid section would prevent this. Same with the wiring, the radiator fan wiring ran a full loop of the engine bay for no apparent reason, and every single wire coming off the relay was the same color. These are details that make working on the car a nightmare.

    So time to redo everything.

    First the hood came off. Side note, Jesus Christ the 2002 has a heavy hood. Like surprisingly so. You can see I started moving things around in the engine bay. I cut the exhaust off the car underneath, but the bolts from the header to the midsection were seized, so it's stuck together. I can't drop the exhaust out the gap, so it'll have to come out after the engine. It is free from the car entirely though.


    Below are some examples of the things that drive me nuts about this swap. The wiring is zip tied to coolant hoses, relay blocks are shoved where ever they'll sit, dead systems just remain in the car for no real reason. I found quite a few wires sitting in the engine bay that just generally lead no where on either end.






    These zip ties were all removed from coolant hoses. Almost all of them were tightened to the point where they were digging into the hose. In many cases wiring harness portions were also ziptied to the hose, and then the whole lot was zip tied to the chassis. Look, zip ties are useful in moderation. But this engine bay basically fell apart when I started removing zip ties.


    I finished the weekend removing the intake manifold. A hateful job that was 100% designed by someone who had a grudge against people with big hands. I spent far too much time removing that manifold from the engine. I wanted to do it in the bay to give myself more room to extract the engine, but I borderline regret doing that now. It ate up hours. The cooling system was removed as well, and the wiring harness was labeled and separated from the engine as best as I could. I'm sure we'll discover how good a job I did when the engine comes out.


    Once the engine is out, it's time for some clean up. I'll be cutting off any brackets that are not needed, plugging any holes that serve no purpose, and sending the car off again for some fresh engine bay paint. I won't call it a shaved bay, but... trimmed? Yeah, sure trimmed bay. I also ordered something I'm extremely excited about, this part is the crowning jewel to this car. It'll realize the dream 2002 for me. I'm being intentionally vague until they get in, so in the mean time, here's a picture of my dog.

    Last edited by bwwaaaa; 01-14-2019 at 08:55 AM.

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Posts
    122

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    Boy, am I glad to see you do it right! It will be frustrating, from what can be seen in the pictures, but in the end you will be so happy you took the time to get rid of the mess. Hack jobs by mental self-proclaimed mechanics are the worst.
    "You could roll an E30 in a BMW showroom today and people would think:
    Well, they finally got the 1 series right!"

    3.0 L e30 ground up build

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