"It was cooler static."

[Dremetos]

I bagged my car because I realized it was a good investment due to the fact that it's universal. You can bag nearly anything. This was good and well, but I missed being static. Until I realized I could drag the fuck out of it and scare elderly people and leave mouth breathing soccer moms speechless. Car is dirty because it rained the day prior to pics but such is life.






dat pinch weld & rocker panel rot



fk carpet

[scweet14]

good start, but you need to do something about that front. needs to match the rear and it would be perfect!

[Dudermagee]

Ah the harness bar, death trap extremos.

Cool car though

[drift55]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! I remember youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Oh Damn, it's Sam]

Ah the harness bar, death trap extremos.

Mmmhmm. Hope you don't use that harness bar anywhere except on the autocross track.

I'd love to see the nose come down to match the rear. That'd just seal the deal for me.

[Dremetos]

This car doesn't know what a track is lol. Need to physically shorten my front struts in order to get it even, which is on the agenda.

[ak-]

Soooooo, what's the contact patch of your tire when you're driving around not air'd out?

[Oh Damn, it's Sam]

Harness bars. Not even once.

[Dremetos]

Soooooo, what's the contact patch of your tire when you're driving around not air'd out?

Cruising around town, 65/35, highway driving, 75/25.

Harness bars. Not even once.

What would you advise then? I'm surprised genuine Sparco components would be prone to such failure.

[Oh Damn, it's Sam]

Sparco or not, there's just no way a bar of that diameter can handle the kind of load that two human bodies place on it in a crash. Not without placing that bar in rigid tension, which the chassis of the car just simply cannot do effectively.

If the crumple zone on your car is a meter long, a 40 MPH crash into a fixed wall would cause the car to decelerate at something like 50-60G. 200 kg of passengers * 60G of acceleration is 118,000N of force, all applied in a split second.

Harness bars are for autocross only, or other situations where the risk of crash is nearly zero. Harnesses themselves (5- or 6-point only, 4-point are for people who don't mind being wadded up into a little ball in their car's footwell) must be used with a cage due to the risk of head and neck injury in a rollover. Cars with cages should be driven with a helmet on at all times due to the risk of head injury should your head contact a bar.

This racecar shit is not to be toyed with. Safety items are designed to be used in concert and huge amounts of engineering and design expertise has gone into them. Used improperly or hacked together, they will kill you.

[rice4life]

Cruising around town, 65/35, highway driving, 75/25.



What would you advise then? I'm surprised genuine Sparco components would be prone to such failure.

Get a quality weld in roll cage with hefty base plates. Or reinforce and weld in a premade bolt in cage and add base plates so this doesn't happen.



The OEM equipment is so much safer than the harness bar.

[Dremetos]

My harness is a 5 point. The stock seat belt is still there and fully functional on both passenger and drivers sides.

You're telling me a factory 3-point harness is going to do better in a roll over incident? It's a roll over - regardless of your harness the weight of the vehicle is crushing down upon you. A factory 3-point without a cage will be just as effective as a 5-point w/ a harness bar and no cage.

And this is all based on the idea of the harness bar failing. How can you be sure it will, or will not?

[ergizheng]

This car doesn't know what a track is lol

[sterling archer]

sparco or not, there's just no way a bar of that diameter can handle the kind of load that two human bodies place on it in a crash. Not without placing that bar in rigid tension, which the chassis of the car just simply cannot do effectively.

If the crumple zone on your car is a meter long, a 40 mph crash into a fixed wall would cause the car to decelerate at something like 50-60g. 200 kg of passengers * 60g of acceleration is 118,000n of force, all applied in a split second.

Harness bars are for autocross only, or other situations where the risk of crash is nearly zero. Harnesses themselves (5- or 6-point only, 4-point are for people who don't mind being wadded up into a little ball in their car's footwell) must be used with a cage due to the risk of head and neck injury in a rollover. Cars with cages should be driven with a helmet on at all times due to the risk of head injury should your head contact a bar.

This racecar shit is not to be toyed with. Safety items are designed to be used in concert and huge amounts of engineering and design expertise has gone into them. Used improperly or hacked together, they will kill you.

preach!

[Oh Damn, it's Sam]

My harness is a 5 point. The stock seat belt is still there and fully functional on both passenger and drivers sides.

Good choices both.

You're telling me a factory 3-point harness is going to do better in a roll over incident? It's a roll over - regardless of your harness the weight of the vehicle is crushing down upon you. A factory 3-point without a cage will be just as effective as a 5-point w/ a harness bar and no cage.

Yes, a 3-point will perform better in a rollover than a 5-point if you do not have a cage. Part of the design of a 3-point is that it allows the body to rotate around the axis of the shoulder strap. This allows the head, neck, and shoulders to move downward in the event that the roof crushes in, which is not something that can happen with a harness. Ask any first responder and they'll tell you stories of coming up on cars crushed flat like a tin can where they were sure the driver was dead, only to find him or her folded up and perfectly fine.

The design of a 3-point belt is extremely clever and very well-suited to the kinds of conditions street cars and occupants are subjected to in a crash.

And this is all based on the idea of the harness bar failing. How can you be sure it will, or will not?

Three things:

1. Bending theory is not difficult math. Run the equations yourself for however fast you think you might hit something, and see what results you get. I can guarantee you that the deflection will not be zero. Or for a more anecdotal example, remember that the cheap shitty pipe kinker Harbor Freight sells has only a 12-ton jack, and it'll turn .120 wall into pretzels all day long. A human body can easily produce 12 tons of force in a hard crash.

2. Let's say the harness bar is perfectly fine. Great, you're just as well off as if you ran the stock seat belts, and no better. Now let's say the harness bar fails. In the photo I posted above, the passenger was ejected from the vehicle and the driver hit the dashboard at the full force of the crash. And remember, the harness bar failing is not the only way to get injured on a street car using harnesses. If you have a violent rollover, you better pray that bar tacos the way I say it will.

3. It doesn't take all that many years in the pit crew for teams at the track or at rallies to have seen just about every kind of safety item failure you can imagine. When they all work in concert, the results are amazing. I've seen 100 MPH rollovers where the car rolls 6, 7 times and the driver walks away with a concussion and a bloody lip. And when their shit fails, or they cheap out, or the gods are just vengeful that day, I've seen people die.

I don't tell you this stuff to be patronizing or to mock your decision to install a harness bar. If you want to run one for autocross or just for show, you'll hear no complaints from me. But they have no place whatsoever on the street or on the track.