Audi 200 20v

[loxxrider]

Thought you guys might like to see something VERY different. This has been my project car for about a year and a half now, and I have BIG plans for it.

I'm much more performance oriented than most of you on here, but I have always had a taste for good fitment and great stance. I'll just have you guys know that its HARD to stance an Audi 200.

My style is clean and simple...and very functional. If you don't like lots of pics and details you should probably leave. Go to the bottom of this post if you want to help me with my low

Here is the layout for my build:

phase 1...fun on stock turbo

I'll see how much I can explain in pics. This is when I first got her home. Almost no mods yet except for ripping out the stock airbox and throwing in a catch can since my crank vent hoses were royally effed.







started the audio install (clarion Hx-d10, PG ti and ta amps, high end PG subs, door components, etc.)







picked up a nice part for future plans



did some light interior work (lots of suede)



fabricated a nice downpipe and wastegate dump for extra gangster status





pieced together a nice VEMS engine management setup



picked up new wheels



this was when I started learning myself about fitment



but fitting the wheels was way off into the future because I needed adapters to fit the wheels, and also these cars use a very unique front brake setup that doesn't allow for anything normal to fit up front in terms of the wheel hub size. Sooooo in order to fit the wheels, I needed to convert to Porsche brakes with Audi S8 rotors, custom brackets, braided ss lines, etc...and to fit the brakes, I needed the bigger wheels which required me to buy adapters. So long story short, I spent a lot of money just to fit these damn wheels.

While waiting for adapters, I picked up some sweet toys. (s372 is not mine...its my buddy's but I plan on running it later)



for size reference, this is/was the one in the middle



this is it while being refurbished



tore apart the dash area to make sure that each and every light and switch worked properly



put her all back together...yummm (still more work to do here)





picked up a spare long block to build up



brackets (on cad) and new calipers



blew some flames



Finally got everything together to put the wheels and brakes on

you can see the caliper peeking out here






stock height fitment


rear

front was flush with fender

oh and I finally got a real exhaust because the sidepipe made for no clearance whatsoever...3" straight back from the turbo with vband into random ass muffler. Sounds awesome tho.



Then I decided those stock tails were not cuttin it, so my neighbor airbrushed them candy apple red.





Then my roommate and I started getting serious. Here we have two sets of bilstein sport struts and shocks (BMW E30 and Audi 200 20v), eibach coil springs (200), H&R race springs (E30), A1 racing coilover parts, and Omaha steaks...







semi-finished product of the suspension setup



and for the fronts I had to make my own rings for the sleeves to sit on (strut housings)



when all was said and done, we ended up with this







I would have tried to go lower but my downpipe pretty much hits the ground at that point. Here is as low as its ever gone thus far...this is with the coils all the way down unfortunately.



Now this is pretty much why I'm making a thread here. I have to figure out how to get the damn car lower in the front (ideas from you guys would be sweet). I'm almost positive that the struts are bottoming out when the coils are all the way down...which means I could either shorten the strut housings and get shorter shock bodies to custom fit in them (not doing that). OR I could make the struts mount higher than the stock location on the strut towers...that IS happening.



I think I've got the basic solution. Thats for the next post though!


oh btw

phase 2 almost there...this is just to hold me over until phase 3

bigger turbo (57mm) and all the fixin's to get it on there and running right
So far all I still need is to figure out the oil lines and some intercooler piping...vbands for this sucker are hard as hell to find.

just bought a roof rack

fix my front lowness situation

should make about 400awhp in this stage

phase 3 final phase

650-800whp...no holding back.

The groundwork is already laid for all of this. I just have to build my other motor. That will be a slow process.

probably on a borg warner turbo. S372? 42r? 4088? T67? I really don't know quite yet.

Other things I'll want

built 01E tranny from B5 S4 or similar

pearl white roll cage

probably looking to run at least in the 10's, but we will see if I ever even bother to try.

Thats all for now!

[saturnstance]

damn..looks good. keep up the work. in for phase 3!

[Matt Jones]

400awhp? From a bigger turbo and mappable ECU? Damn, I thought the 20v turbo was only 220bhp as standard.

Still, car looks interesting. Euro bumpers?

[loxxrider]

400awhp? From a bigger turbo and mappable ECU? Damn, I thought the 20v turbo was only 220bhp as standard.

Still, car looks interesting. Euro bumpers?

Hmmm I don't know what euro bumpers look like...for all I know, they may not be any different from the ones the car has on it since they all came from germany and I've never heard of that.

217bhp is the standard hp. On stock turbo the car will probably make 300bhp or maybe a little more. 310wtq is common which is pretty sweet. I can tell you right now that the car certainly feels all of at least 280bhp and thats only on about 18 psi and a very base tune.

400awhp will be done with a pretty good sized turbo. Hoset H1C. They are known to flow enough for 500whp. The smaller version with much smaller comp wheel has made 409whp on an SR20 I believe.

I will probably stop at around 350whp and call it a day for a while because the motor will still be on stock rods although people have gone up to around 450 on stock rods. After you throw rods in, I've seen 630 awhp. I'll be doing pistons too just for the hell of it. Stock crank and block has been used upwards of 1300bhp (just with different pistons and rods)

I'm going to see how the stock exhaust manifold does at first. Might choke it a bit, but I'm positive that we will be able to make around 350. So I'm using stock manifold, getting some oil lines, injectors, my standalone, and just modifying some of the stock IC piping to mate up with the v-band on the Holset comp outlet.

Its cheap and dirty, but should work relatively well for the time being.

[bonkey]

awesome!love the wheels

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, I had a quick search and all 200s seem to share that strong jaw. It's rather more underbitey than most Euro-spec stuff, though!

Have you had your car on the rollers?

[loxxrider]

Yeah, I had a quick search and all 200s seem to share that strong jaw. It's rather more underbitey than most Euro-spec stuff, though!

Have you had your car on the rollers?

Yeah...I don't like the front of the car that much. There are things that can be done where they look pretty nice though. I will look into it soon. One thing I like is the V8 lower bumper with 200 upper bits and hood.

Never had the car on the rollers. Power figures I'm quoting are just guesses. Guys with chipped ones make 280 at the crank and I have a lot more power potential with the standalone.

I'll probably put it on the rollers after we street tune it on the Holset. I think we will probably stop somewhere around 20 psi on the holset. (just cuz I'll be scared to go higher without it on the dyno)...then we'll see what it makes. I think it should be ready in the next few months.

[stealthfighter1]

seen it in person at fixxfest, very clean car, keep up the good work!

[vonMonster]

love it!

[loxxrider]

Thanks for the comments guys. Its truly appreciated.

Well I went out to confirm that the car wont go lower just because the struts bottom out, and I wasn't surprised with what I saw.


Here is how it sits when I put them down.



this is with them at the current ride height (probably 1.5" of travel for the suspension at most). Its ridiculous cuz its not like I'm slammed or anything. Its lower than most (type 44 audis), but not crazy.



They are at about the midway point on the sleeve. So I have plenty of room to go higher with the strut mounts up top while still maintaining a reasonable ride height.

[Mentosman42]

why did u start with a 200? i know its turbo stock but its really easy to turbo a 90 and they look better(in my opinion).


and have u done anything to the engine internals? i dont know that i would even be planning on 400 awhp without a full engine rebuild. dont know the history of the car or even the mileage but i havnt seen many people running over 275-300 AWHP without an engine rebuild and that is on very good condition engines.


600 awhp we are talking about 10 grand into the engine and trans.



anyway, good to see another c3 fan here

[loxxrider]

why did u start with a 200? i know its turbo stock but its really easy to turbo a 90 and they look better(in my opinion).


and have u done anything to the engine internals? i dont know that i would even be planning on 400 awhp without a full engine rebuild. dont know the history of the car or even the mileage but i havnt seen many people running over 275-300 AWHP without an engine rebuild and that is on very good condition engines.


600 awhp we are talking about 10 grand into the engine and trans.



anyway, good to see another c3 fan here

Well, I originally bought the car as a donor car to put the motor in a 90, coupe, or 4k, but the car is just WAY too nice to do that to, and I fell in love with it over the course of a few months. I'm not sure how much you know about this car, but there were fewer than 1600 of them ever imported to the united states, and there are currently fewer than 1000 left on the road...if that.

They really aren't all that bad as far as performance is concerned. You can make them handle, brake, and go like anything else, its just that there are no parts available. Everything has to be custom made.

I would agree that the 90's look better, but I actually prefer the bigger car and the challenge of making it look good, and perform well. As I started to mention in the first post, my style is very understated but clean. I would rather have a 1000bhp grandpa looking car than a Lamborghini any day. It just makes life more fun when you beat the pants off of a supercar in a stock looking older sedan. My buddy's old MKIII VR6 turbo beat a gallardo in a race a few years back. The look on the guys face makes it all worth it to me.

ANYWAY, off of that tangent.

I'm VERY confident in the engine's ability to make that power and make it reliably...completely stock. Many have done it. These cars came with ridiculously tight tolerances from the factory and have been known to go 300k without even thinking about a rebuild. They also have very nice Mahle forged pistons in the stock bottom end. The rods are the weak point, but I'm not concerned about them. Torque is what bends rods, and on a big, laggy turbo, that shouldn't be an issue. Time will tell if I'm wrong, and if I am, I have a whole new motor ready to go in anytime.

Also, the engine's ability to stay together has a LOT to do with the tune. I happen to be friends with one of the best tuners in the country. He has tuned everything from my good friend's 1000+whp mustang, to my audi, to his 1000hp honda. If that isn't enough, he had a b16 running 25psi and making about 550fwhp on a completey stock engine (never even cracked the valve cover) and it lasted about 5 years of straight beating until a mishap with a bad, unintentional 30psi boost spike earlier this year.

So from what I've seen and from my knowledge and the resources available to me, I'm not anticipating any problems. Even the 1.8t guys (I used to be one) go 350whp without ever touching the bottom ends. They use the same pistons (essentially). Also, all of the Audi gods on motorgeek seem to think nothing of this goal. Noone has made a peep in objection about it with more than 50k views on the thread

Don't worry, I know how much money it takes to build a car like this. I had 8k in my 1.8t to make 400hp reliably. I already have about 6 in this car (plus what I bought it for)..and its just getting started!

Motor work will consist of scat rods, custom pistons, full balance, etc., coated bearings everywhere, ARP hardware everywhere, solid lifter head.

Tranny will be an 01E from Audi S4. They are holding 800whp no problem stock so far, so I'll stick with that till it breaks. Then either build the 01E or go dogbox.

Sorry if that was too long-winded, but I like to explain things and why I do them the way I do them.

[1985zcar]

Wastegate dump audio/video clip plz.

[Mentosman42]

im a big classic audi fan, been trying to find a solid CQ or 90sq to turbo for a loong time now.

what engine does this have in it? the 3b?

im not so worried about the pistons and rods in a situation like this but the rings and seals, as long as you think the engine is still solid it would be great to see a high HP 200, keep updating.

if u come across a nice 90sq or CQ in the NE area lemme know haha

[loxxrider]

Wastegate dump audio/video clip plz.

I keep trying to get good vids, but all my friend's vid cameras suck.

This is the best I can do for now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AAUuukVADo

and this was with a bad boost leak so it was slow...but its 7400 rpm's so its pretty sweet anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF_UGnElNxw

im a big classic audi fan, been trying to find a solid CQ or 90sq to turbo for a loong time now.

what engine does this have in it? the 3b?

im not so worried about the pistons and rods in a situation like this but the rings and seals, as long as you think the engine is still solid it would be great to see a high HP 200, keep updating.

if u come across a nice 90sq or CQ in the NE area lemme know haha

Yes, the car has the 3b in it.

The engine I have at home has close to 200k on it, and it looks like it just came from the factory. Of course, it will get a rebuild anyway before it goes in, but thats a given with new pistons, etc.

Will definitely let you know. They are all over up there really. Check out audifans or motorgeek.com