What am I doing wrong?

[Byron]

My tires eat my front fenders. It started when I put the RF's on at this height

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x96/e30spdfrk/the%20318/DSCI0723.jpg

Not that low, pretty good stretch and horrible offsets. The tire would hit after turning the wheel about a half turn, and it grabbed the fender and pulled it back in while reversing. I figured it was because I wasn't low enough to have the fender hit the sidewall rather than the tread.

So I lowered it more and stretched the tires some more, went from a 205/40/17 on an 8 to a 205/45/16 on a 9 and dropped it down another inch and a half. They still hit like crazy, even with still-not-very-good offsets. You can see the fender issues in these kinda

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/225185_216398291723708_100000606168181_786946_4655 219_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/225056_10150180307743248_512293247_6926635_4353547 _n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/227176_216398241723713_100000606168181_786942_5362 003_n.jpg

So my thoughts were:
-offsets were too high to let the fender hit the sidewall so it hits the tread
-still not low enough
-still not enough stretch

So I threw on the type B's (205/40/17 on 8.5's) and ran them flush at et-14. This closed up the wheel to arch gap to a quarter inch and has the most stretched look of all. It rubs absolutly horribly now, I can't turn the wheel more than a quarter turn either way without the tires rubbing hard enough to slow the car. What am I doing wrong? I've driven Josh's old M3 with the same wheel and tire setup that I have now and you can turn lock to lock, forward or reverse with no issues at all. I want to get a paint job but not until I can fix this so I don't go destroying new paint.

My next step is going down to a 205/40/16 up front and making the wheels 9.5's, I think the shorter tires may help a little? I'll only have a quarter inch to my oilpan with the 205/40/16's, so unfortunatly I cant go much shorter than that.


Cliffs: read the thread you slacker

[SeanDub]

Didnt read it, but camber helps a great deal, tire makes contact at a different angle or something lol

[Ollie]

Yeah camber does wonders up front. Also, not turning the wheel when you go in reverse helps too.=P

[Anonymoose]

195's up front might help too

[Byron]

I've got 6.5 degrees of camber up front lol, the only 195 tire in a 16" is a s.drive that runs wider than my 205 Falkens

[Average_Jerk]

I've got 6.5 degrees of camber up front lol, the only 195 tire in a 16" is a s.drive that runs wider than my 205 Falkens
tunershop has 195/40/16 Falken 912

[Byron]

Forgot about tunershop tires. Double the price sucks but if I have to so be it. Has anyone had the same issue and fixed it with shorter tires? Thats the only differentiating factor between mine and others.


Look how far my tire is tucked into the sides of the fenders

http://www.stanceworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/DubMDsowo-33.jpg

compared to Josh's fenders

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1162/5128104778_b9f0080be3_b.jpg

[SeanDub]

Drive more carefully? I was running 215/40 on an 8.5 et0 up front on the m3. Rubbed every time I turned the wheel, but I never sucked em in.

[Byron]

Thats what I'm saying though, why should my car kill the fenders when I turn if Josh can do whatever he wants with the same setup? I'm trying to figure out the difference between the two so I don't have to drive careful

[SeanDub]

You might have a more aggressive corner tread?

[Byron]

Literally the same exact setup right now, the type B's Josh was running were mine and they're on my car now.

[SeanDub]

I got nothing then lol

[Moose]

E30 fenders just pull very easily, rolling them completely flat so that there is nothing to "catch" on will help likely if you haven't done that already. Kinda late on this set, but maybe on the next :D
FWIW, you were lower than most on the RF's, and lower than all on the RS, so that is likely hurting more than its helping, just gotta be extra careful when reversing/turning tight. A shorter sidewall should cut down on it a bit too.

[Byron]

I think e30's just suck for going low haha. They fight originally with the extra tall struts and the low aluminum pans, then when you fix those problems they get mad and go into self destruct mode.

[NegativeCamber]

everyone forgets that there are caster settings as well. if you increase the amount of positive caster, you get more tire lean when turning...a bad way of explaining it is like dynamic negative camber on turns.

[Byron]

I tried with +14 caster at first and it put the wheel a little far back in the fender so it would hit where the arch starts to slope down; I switched it up to +11 caster and it hits in the middle now but still rubs just as much.

[NegativeCamber]

hmm. ill have to agree with what was previously mentioned then....less tire.

[Byron]

Yeah, I think I'm going to go to a 205/40/16 for now and if that makes it better I'll eventually do the 195/40. Might try a 185/35/17 on the front type B's, not sure what I'm gonna do once the RF's are 9.5" wide though.

Anyone looking for some 925 mile old 205/45/16 Falken 512's?

[Topazkd]

IDK how it is on the e30s but I'm running 17x10 et 12 with 205/45r17 tyre on my e46 with pulled fender lips and -3 camber and positive caster....only rubs while reversing and making a turn. I have to agree with -camber helps alot ;)

[StatusRacing]

Have you gotten a full alignment yet?

Your suspension might be off in other area other than camber.

-Jade

[padraigmk3]

I'm going to agree with the people farther up ^
more stretch with a higher sidewall and getting your caster as close to zero with appropriate camber should make a difference. Also, have you thought about giving the fender lip a slight flare so that when (or if) the tread rubs, it doesn't 'grab' the edge and pull it? You could also grind it smooth in addition to that.

You may have already done this, but I can't 100% tell from the photos.

regardless good luck preserving your flares haha!

[StatusRacing]

You could always do this:
http://www.theoryinpracticeengineering.com/gallery/d/1421-1/DSC00532.JPG

and you can run bigger wheels up front

[SeanDub]

How would that help with catching his fender...

[StatusRacing]

How would that help with catching his fender...

sorry thought he was having multiple rubbing/hitting issues not just his fender.

[Average_Jerk]

How would that help with catching his fender...
theres no fenders, duh

[padraigmk3]

haha say what you want, but I think status racings solution is great.

No fenders?
No problem!

[Byron]

Have you gotten a full alignment yet?

Your suspension might be off in other area other than camber.

-Jade
I used to be an alignment tech at a dealer, I did it myself.
I'm going to agree with the people farther up ^
more stretch with a higher sidewall and getting your caster as close to zero with appropriate camber should make a difference. Also, have you thought about giving the fender lip a slight flare so that when (or if) the tread rubs, it doesn't 'grab' the edge and pull it? You could also grind it smooth in addition to that.

You may have already done this, but I can't 100% tell from the photos.

regardless good luck preserving your flares haha!
It's impossible to get this car to 0 caster, but I wouldn't want that anyways. I had a slight flair on the front fenders originally, it didn't help. And the tires rub so much it wore through the inner lip so it's only the outer skin now.

I'd like to keep the stock fender arch line anyways.


Beefcurtains is buying my 205/45's so I should be getting the 40's soon.

[StatusRacing]

haha say what you want, but I think status racings solution is great.

No fenders?
No problem!

What can I say its a natural talent of mine hahaha

-Jade

[Jesus Christ]

when i turn lock the wheel my fender vibrates pretty hard but ive never caught it on the tire. thats weird it looks like it has some space in the pics. i say try even more camber up front if you can. If that doesnt help id try to bring the wheel in like 3 to 5 mm if its possible. if all that fails then id fork out for those expensive euro tires, they make a 185/40/16 in the uk if youre looking at importing a tire

[SeanDub]

My fender actually rests on my tire when I'm full lock. From lock to straight there is a considerable height difference.

[mo diesil]

e30's and e36's have different Castor effect this may be your issue.

[Byron]

Here you can actually see what I'm talking about. The tire grabs the fender and pulls it in

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x96/e30spdfrk/the%20318/DSCI0850.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x96/e30spdfrk/the%20318/DSCI0853.jpg

The type B's are by far the worst.


Luckily I have some 205/40/16's coming in soon so I'll swap them on then see if they help at all.

[smokenyall]

cut the lil lip off and just leave the flare.

[Byron]

Lol nah, I want to be able to put stock front fenders back on when it gets repainted.

[Byron]

Now how the hell does Paolo turn?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/5822341355_684209ecf2_b.jpg

His tires go way farther into the sides of the fenders than mine do.

grumble :mad

[Jesus Christ]

maybe need to be rolled a little more aggressively?

at that point there yours catches id try to give it 1 or 2 more rolls. did you use a fender roller?

[Byron]

Mine were rolled flat by me. They rubbed so hard that the tire wore through the metal on the lip so it's only the outside layer now.

[benz88]

your going to have to either go with a higher offset or pull the fenders. or cut them. Your choice.

[Byron]

I don't want to deal with the problem, I want to fix it.

[SeanDub]

These have all been options to fix it...:confused

[Byron]

No they haven't. The problem is I can't run nice offset wheels on stock looking fenders. Running higher offsets or cutting the fenders both are ways to get around it, not to fix it. The only thing said that could possibly fix it so far is to run smaller tires, but since I'm still waiting for them to come, I'm looking at other options.

I'm not trying to sound rude, because I appreciate all the suggestions.

[SeanDub]

No they are ways to fix the problem, you're looking for a magic solution that I'm not sure exists. The fact is, your fender is catching on the tire. The ways to fix that are to sink the wheel or pull the fender.

[Byron]

My wheels are sunk and my fenders are pulled, so even if those were ways to "fix" it, they don't work. There obviously is a magic solution if others can do it, I'm just trying to understand what the difference is between mine and those.

[SeanDub]

Dunno what to tell you man, my car rubs front fender every time i turn so I just make sure I don't back up too fast.

[Average_Jerk]

Do you think it could have anything to do with the added weight from the swap? maybe when the wheel turns, it offsets the weight and that one side digs in because of the balance. a heavier spring rate up front maybe? I know you just got new springs up front, but I forget what the rates are.

[Byron]

It could possibly be, the engine only added about 50lbs to the front of the car over a 325i though. Most of the weight is from the transmission.

My front rate is 784lb

[StatusRacing]

Did you ever try adjusting the caster?

Try pulling some caster out (lower numbers/less caster). When you have high caster, as you turn the wheel it tends to "flop" out.

[trism]

looks to me like its catching on the bulge of the rim protector on the tyre.

try shaving it off with a sanding wheel on an angle grinder

[Lukey]

ur comparing apples to oranges......?

different cars will do different things.....?

[StatusRacing]

Yeah, I just went back and re-read the 1st page. I saw that you already tried caster, but I think you should be running lower not higher caster. Try going really low caster. Your steering wheel isn't going to return to center as easily, but it's the price you gotta pay lol.

As far as comparing your car to an E36, that doesn't really help. If you were comparing your car to another E30, sure...

[Byron]

I've tried the caster with the max and minimum amount's that I can get and there isn't really a difference. The reason's I'm using Josh's car as an example are because I've worked on and driven it multiple times, it sits the same as mine on the same wheels and has the same type of suspension.


I'm starting to think that e30's might just have thin fenders. now that it's just one layer thick I can move them a bit with just my fingers. Maybe I'll try repairing this set with some thicker metal and see if that helps.

[Byron]

Well 205/40's helped a lot, I can turn most of the way to full lock and still reverse. They have the unfortunate side effect of cutting my ground clearance in half but I guess it's a worthy tradeoff. I have a meh fender that isn't messed up yet, I'm gonna use that as a test fender before I get actual good ones and a respray.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x96/e30spdfrk/the%20318/DSCI0874_1.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x96/e30spdfrk/the%20318/DSCI0872_2.jpg